Pathfinder 3e Wishlist

Pathfinder 2e is my primary system. I have run the Abomination Vaults and am close to completing the Kingmaker adventure path. Over the years, I have learned the system and think I have a pretty good feeling of what I like and feel could be improved for whenever Paizo thinks about releasing a new edition of Pathfinder.

Strengths and What to Keep

Pf2 is an amazing system with a lot for players and Gms to work with. Here are a few of the things that I hope Paizo can bring over to 3e…

Three Action Economy

One of the most famous features of the system. Paizo got this right and it really does not need to be changed at all. Its clear and easy. Going back and playing other games that dont have this feature makes those systems feel clunky by comparison.

Viable Marshalls

One of Pf2’s strengths is the incredible variety that players have in building the exact type of character they want to play. Magic is not the end all be all of the this system. Players are not forced to take magic to be interesting or powerful. Every type of character gets to shine in different areas of play.

Difficult but not Deadly Combats

The math of Pf2 is tight. Monsters put players through their paces and hard combats feel like a good back and forth most of the time. At the same time, players will almost always still win but that is ok. This system isnt meant to be a meat grinder. Players are meant to feel heroic. To do this they must be challenged but should still win out in the end. Pathfinder succeeds at bring out this feeling. Damage is spiky and a few bad rolls could put a PC in dire straights. The danger is there but not overwhelming.

Things to Change

Play a game enough and you are sure to come up with a few nit picks. Here are some of mine…

Flatten the Math a Bit

If you play pf2 at higher levels, you will quickly realize that modifiers and DCs can get pretty crazy…

I am not advocating for 5e’s bounded accuracy since this numerical growth is part of what makes pf2 so nicely balanced. Taking it away would make the system feel to much like 5e.

However, a number crunch could be done. Perhaps instead of adding the full level of a player to everything they do we could add half. Perhaps items could only go to +2 instead of +3. Maybe remove attribute boosts. Reduce proficiency from +2, +4, +6, +8 to +1, +2, +3, +4. Big numbers are intimidating and could put off new comers from trying the game.

Significant Spell Pruning

It is my belief that all non combat spells should be removed. The reason for this is twofold.

Designers can never guess at all the situations that player character might be put in. Because of this, trying to make spells to cover these situations is a lost cause. The spells the designers come up with will never be enough.

All of these niche spells also pollute caster spell lists. Players have to read past dozens of interesting but possibly useless spells in order to find the spells that they actually want to cast. This adds needless complexity to being a caster.

Instead, all non combat applications of magic should be left to skill checks. Pf2 already has schools of magic as skills. Instead of having to make a specific spell allow players to make a skill check and describe how their own magic works.

Rework Skill Feats

Related to the above point the design of skill feats should be changed. Currently, most skill feats focus on niche non combat applications of skills. This fails for the same reason non combat spells do. Designers cant possibly come up with enough feats to cover all the situations characters will be in.

Instead, skill feats should augment or enhance skill actions in combat. Have feats that give the grab action reach, or that offer action compression for them. Feats that grant new lore or languages are fine but feats like Group Impression should not be a thing.

Some skill feats could be used as replacements for non combat spells, possibly allowing for characters to talk with animals and other magical utilities.

Skill actions would also have to be looked at. Every skill should have a combat skill action to go with it by default. This would ensure that players have meaningful choices when they do get skill feats instead of having to take the feat that lets them use the skill in combat.

Move Away from the Adventuring Day / Vancian Magic

Pf2 does not have an Adventuring day mechanic where designers make characters to be able to take on X number of threats in a day. The only real thing that prevents a party from being able to do encounter after encounter for the whole in game day is that eventually, the casters of the group will run out of spell slots.

These once per day resources feel a little out of place in Pf2. It only really affects casters. It also does not feel like a good balancing mechanic since most groups simply leave dangerous areas as soon as the casters have expended their higher level slots.

One very interesting third party rule that one of the designers of pf2 helped to create is called Essence Casting. This allows casters to cast their spells without spell slots. Its a very cool mechanic that I like in theory but have not seen in play just yet. It comes from this book.

The other more likely option would be to just expand on the focus point system that pf2 already has. Making focus spells the default would allow casters to be able to fight all day like marshalls. It would also reduce the number of spells that they could theoretically cast in a fight. It depends on how the system is implemented tho.

Why These Things?

The main hope that I have for Pf3 is for it to retain the depth of pf2 while making the game more accessible. Reducing feat bloat and making all choices as exciting as possible.

Learn from skill based RPGs. Things like Doublespeak and Dream Message are not needed or exciting to pick up. Allow players to simply describe what they are doing and make a skill check. Its simpler and better for role play. Players get to be creative in coming up with solutions instead of looking for them on their sheets.

Pathfinder comes from the DnD linage. It inherited Vancian Magic from DnD and has used it as a default ever since. However, Pathfinder is its own thing now. It does not need to hold on to legacy systems like Vancian Magic. The system might be familiar and comfortable but it has its flaws. Designers should feel empowered to create a magic system that better suits the larger than life heroes of Golarion.

Conclusion

Pf3 is not coming anytime soon. Nor do I really want it to. Pf2 is a great game already and is always getting better thanks to Paizo’s abundant support. Even so, the game does have some flaws. I am sure Paizo is aware of them. This post is just a few of the key ones that I have identified and how I would go about fixing them.

A lot of my suggestions focus on adding options to combat and removing things from non combat areas. I do admit, my favorite pillar of RPGs is the combat pillar. However, I dont dislike exploration and role play. I believe removing these specific rules will actually improve role play. GMs dont have to shoot down player plans cause they “dont have the feat for that”. Players dont have to shift through a bunch of niche options and guess at the one that might get used even once in a campaign. By removing specific rules in the role play and exploration areas of the game, you dont remove options, you empower players to create their own. Designers should focus on detailing the one area of the game that they have the most controlled conditions for: combat.